KNOTORYUS Talks to Peter De Potter
For Belgian artist, photographer and graphic designer Peter De Potter, taking the road less travelled has firmly cemented his status as a multimedia master. One his high-profile collaborators can’t help but giving carte blanche to. From visually defining eras for fashion industry legends (a quick Grailed search will unlock some of his coveted graphics for Raf Simons ) and musical titans alike (‘The Life Of Pablo’-orange will never die) to coaching the vision of burgeoning design students, Peter De Potter has powerfully balanced contrasting arts over the last two decades.
In his newly-released third monograph, 'VAPE SHOP OLYMPIA’, De Potter glibly plays with perceived reality and makes you re-think the visual emblems of modern-product-culture while simultaneously delving into an individual analysis of the self in various stages of physical and mental exploration. High time for a sit-down and some exclusive behind-the-images info.
KNOTORYUS: VAPE SHOP OLYMPIA is the third and final book in this series. Were you always planning on publishing a trilogy?
PETER DE POTTER: Yes and no. I'll take you back a bit. I don't remember when it started exactly, but for years, obviously because of the internet, I was convinced that anything published on paper was over and that print was dead. Consequently, I was only creating work I could release on digital or social platforms. It felt completely natural to take that road.
Peter De Potter: “I like the ambiguity of this image, it’s a cross between a falling figure and an uprising one. It’s not easy to bring an emotive element in documenting a movement, all elements have to be right. I think this image is pretty heroic. You might think that ‘heroic’ would mean ‘chest out, chin up, head upright’, you know, the archetypical statuesque pose. But this image turns it around, upside down even, and it’s still forceful. There’s something David Claerbout-ish about this image, you expect to see his body move any second, there’s this feeling of it being between slow motion and freeze-frame.”
KNOTORYUS: Your Tumblr-pages were wildly popular.
PETER DE POTTER: In its early days I was all about Tumblr. I thought it was such a democratic medium. It felt anonymous and everything revolved around the imagery. It didn’t matter where stuff was coming from or who made it. Unlike Instagram, which is purely about who is behind the page and how many followers they have. Tumblr felt very fresh and it fit my needs perfectly, since I only wanted to create work that I could upload immediately and introduce directly into the visual stream. So Tumblr and everything it involved represented ‘contemporary culture’ to me, not in the academic sense, but in the actual, everyday-life sense. I just wanted to put my efforts out there and see what happened. Well, the response was immediate and sudden. The work got picked up, spurred reactions and came to life, really.
KNOTORYUS: Which probably intensified your belief that print was obsolete.
PETER DE POTTER: Oh, for sure! I kept that mind-set for years. Then, slowly but surely, I would hear young people talk about books and print in the same way they would talk about coveted sneakers. Their interest went mainly to these limited-edition magazines and fanzines that were considered very desirable objects. At first, I had my doubts about it, dismissing it as a fluke. But the more I thought about it, the more I considered the option. I know I'm pretty late in the game, because you usually publish your first booklet when you’re 20. But I dived in and the reaction to 'The Vanity of Certain Flowers', my first monograph, was similar to the way I had heard kids speaking about those zines: they had to have it. And I like to believe that the main reason was a sincere appreciation for this object I made.
KNOTORYUS: How did you decide what that first book was going to be about?
PETER DE POTTER: It was clear that the books needed to be about what I’ve always been most interested in: identity and the ‘self’, as I call it.
Peter De Potter: “I guess this one’s for insiders only. (laughs) There are a number of images in the book of Sancho with his pliers and no, it’s got nothing to do with some fetishistic kind of self-harm or whatever. These images are a reference to measuring your body fat, albeit in the very DIY, whatever-utensil-at-hand kind of way. It’s definitely a serious and heartfelt shout-out from my side. I love the discipline that comes with working out, with any kind of sports really. It’s intriguing to see that the social media phenomenon of these ripped and picture-perfect hardbodies is being revered and vilified at the same time. It seems to grate that they embrace vanity in such an obvious way but I think a lot of people are oblivious of the extreme hard work and sacrifice that goes with it. In a way, you can’t blame people for showing off their hard-earned rewards and it doesn’t matter if you think the whole premise is superficial or not. And it’s also a fact that the online gym boys and girls have provided us with a new genre of visual self-portrayal, it’s become a visual language in itself, like it or not. Anything to do with enhancing your body has to do with self-image, so of course it’s a main theme in my work. It’s this ebb and flow of self-love and self-hate, and I don’t think that’s a toxic thing in itself, I think it’s very human. Looking at the body as a tool for self-improvement and self-acceptance shouldn’t be seen as arrogant or dangerous. We all go down that road to some extent.”
KNOTORYUS: Did you approach things differently when it came to creating the second book ALL STATUES SING PROTEST SONGS?
PETER DE POTTER: With this trilogy of books I feel like doing an almost annual report on the times we live in and the place the individual carves out for himself. In these times, people, young and old, are being conditioned to participate all of the time. In order to become so-called fully-developed individuals we are encouraged to take in things, like things, buy things, be up to speed with things, be able to talk about certain things, and so on. But actually -and I'm serious about this- that’s not the right way to get to know yourself or shape yourself. The only thing that is really important, I believe, is retreating. That was really what my first book was about. I tried to visualise the process of 'retreat' in a conceptual way, but the goal of retreat had to be to become stronger.
KNOTORYUS: As opposed to just hiding and tapping out.
PETER DE POTTER: Yes, because that would be useless almost. Then for the sequel it seemed too abrupt to segue into: “We retreated and shaped who we are, so now that we’re finished we're ready to come back out”. I think there's another step in between: the formation process, meaning: raising yourself literally and figuratively is a challenge in itself. That’s what the second book was about. And as you can tell, I knew there was but one logical conclusion for the third one, VAPE SHOP OLYMPIA: getting back out there and looking at the world anew.
KNOTORYUS: My colleague saw when you did your open call for models and went: "Peter De Potter is doing an Insta-casting, this is going to be crazy." And then when I read your caption it said: “I’ll answer all of your questions”. I thought: “Oh dear.” (laughs) How many DMs did you get?
PETER DE POTTER: Way too many! (laughs) When I was 18, DM'ing or that type of direct contact wasn’t around and even if it had been, I would never have dared to write to someone. But now, that barrier is gone. It's almost like you can sense that these kids approach a lot of people, you know? They’re used to asking for things via social media. And if they get a no, it's fine. That's a very good attitude, really. But honestly, I hadn’t expected that big a reaction, and they were very young sometimes. You never know who your audience is, how could you really, but sometimes they were 14, 15. I thought it was odd I was even on their radar. And I feel like most of the people I spoke to really knew my work. The shoots I organize aren't commercial, you're not putting on a jacket and posing. It’s a process and if you work with me, you need spirit. And most of the people who approached me possessed that, so casting was easy, really.
Peter De Potter: “I often incorporate older work into my new images. To me, the dates of the works are almost irrelevant. I know that a lot of artists look at their output in terms of phases and periods, and I’m sure that anyone else but me would see the same trajectory in my work but for some reason I’m kind of blind to it. It’s reassuring to me that I can look at my work as one giant image bank, to be accessed at any time and at any opportunity. I like the idea to play with the physicality of an image, especially since most of my older images only exist on digital platforms. In this image I used an old, cheap print-out of an image from my Angelic Starts series from 2010. Angelic Starts was one of the first Tumblr-projects and it seems to have struck a chord with people over time because I still get a lot of reactions, now even more than back then. It’s gotten a bit overlooked over the years but the essence of this series is actually the words. Each image carries a particular word; when you put all the Angelic Starts together you get a list of words that I compiled as virtues for love. The requirements for love so to speak. Only when I had the words I could choose the images; the words are then scribbled across the bodies like you would graffiti a slogan on a statue in the park. Quite randomly, but insistently.
Here Anio is showing this particular work in a public environment, on a bright sunny afternoon in Antwerp. There’s something activist about it, like a small and private performance but still out in the open. It’s not about sending out a communal or political message, like you normally would in an activist happening. The image on the print is really still and intimate and I’d like to think that this transforms the whole image of Anio on his knees on the pavement into something equally spiritual.”
KNOTORYUS: Could you sense the models' spirit in the DMs, in the way they were talking?
PETER DE POTTER: For sure. Most people would give a motivation in a few words. They'd send a lot of portraits too, and those would say the most. I’ve always been fascinated by the way people portray themselves or which pictures they find representative of themselves. I think I not only have a sixth sense but also a trained eye to see through a lot of bullshit.
KNOTORYUS: Very necessary, since the requirements in the casting call were pretty broad if I remember correctly.
PETER DE POTTER: Look, I’m not a fashion photographer, but I'm not a documentarian either. I’m an artist, I make images. I need 2 ingredients from my models: face and body. In whatever way that is. I don’t have anything else to work with. I don’t work with designer clothes. There's no hair and make-up provided. I don’t do super elaborate sets.
KNOTORYUS: There aren't that many nudes in VAPE SHOP OLYMPIA.
PETER DE POTTER: Are you disappointed? (laughs)
KNOTORYUS: (Laughs) Not at all, just surprised and apparently a bit prejudiced about your work.
PETER DE POTTER: It’s just an aspect of my work, it’s always there but yeah, sometimes people focus on it a bit more. The nudity in my work has nothing to do with eroticism or sensuality even. To me, it really underlines the state of alone-ness. In that sense, the nudes are the loneliest images in these books. It might even be confronting, how secluded and retreated they are.
KNOTORYUS: What were you like at that age?
PETER DE POTTER: What age?
KNOTORYUS: The age most prevalent in VAPE SHOP OLYMPIA: 16 to 24. Let’s go to secondary school first.
PETER DE POTTER: To be honest, I think I never stopped being that age.
KNOTORYUS: A lot of people haven’t, I think.
PETER DE POTTER: For me, the same exact cliché checks out as it does for most Belgians: I grew up in a small town, but whereas other teenagers started going out, riding mopeds, I stayed inside. Up until I was 16, I was exclusively in build-up mode. I was in my room, by myself, all the time. Charging, like a battery. Watching films, reading books, listening to music. Exploring myself mentally and physically. Taking everything in. That’s all I can remember of that time. It falls in line with the concept of ‘retreat’, building yourself up using your own strength.
Peter De Potter: “This one was shot in London. Here Joel is laying out a series of collages I did quite a while ago. For the last 25 years I have been making serial compilations of archive or appropriated material - sometimes they are based on a theme, sometimes there’s a more conceptual slant. The ones you see in this image are from a 2011 series called ‘For The Love Of A Patron Saint’. They’re cut-outs and fragments of images sourced from social media profiles pasted on yellowing book pages, all showing what I like to call ‘in-between moments’: drunk scenes, post-party shenanigans, scenes from rugby initiations and so on. The kind of images that aren’t generally considered ‘beautiful’ but have an unapologetic intensity about them, up to the point where I find them almost hypnotic and life-affirming. There’s always the danger of over-romanticising this kind of material, it can even become patronising but that’s not the case with me. The whole idea of this series was that the collages are intended as some sort of posthumous present for Joe Orton, a bunch of time-machine artefacts for him to enjoy in his afterlife. Yes, maybe a bit over-cooked as a concept but I still like them a lot. I still champion Joe Orton, he was a big influence on me.”
KNOTORYUS: I only started to recognize that feeling of needing to recharge when I got older, I wasn't enlightened in that way as a teenager. I did have a room filled with records, books and magazines, but I think I'd categorise my recoil as more of an escape instead of a conscious effort to refuel.
PETER DE POTTER: I knew what I was doing. I kept lists with everything I needed to get. There were two, maybe three people at my school that had Einstürzende Neubauten records, and because of that we really felt a cut above the rest. (Laughs) It sounds silly but that way of thinking is still okay for me. I went to a very catholic school and our little group dared to show up in class in New Wave clothing, looking like The Cure, which was not appreciated at all to put it mildly. Going to art school was my salvation, actually. If I hadn’t done that, I wouldn’t be where I am now.
KNOTORYUS: VAPE SHOP OLYMPIA is a generous book, 224 pages plus foldout front- and back covers. As you mentioned, the previous two books are sold out. Do you now archive these images and go: "They're in a book, that's it?"
PETER DE POTTER: A great question that I've been asking myself these past couple of weeks, because, damn, it's been a lot. Three years, three books. All are limited edition, because I wanted that. And they get around, that's not what I'm concerned about, but I do think these images still have a lot of potential.
Peter De Potter: “I think Dutch is a beautiful language, I like the way it sounds, I love the beautiful spelling, I love the way it looks written out. It’s true that most of the words and texts I have in my work are in English and no, I don’t put in some Dutch as some poor excuse. I don’t have any outspoken nationalistic feelings but I won’t deny that I simply love certain things that are Flemish and/or Belgian. How could I not? Also, a lot of artists that have been elemental to me are from my home country: Frans Masereel, Adriaen Brouwer, Juliaan Lampens, George Minne. I think that my Flemishness is definitely engrained in my work and I take pride in it. I’m not talking about the nostalgic version of Flemishness, the kind most people prefer, the times they were in elementary school or when they had their first party in the local bar. That has more to do with regret for bygone years than an appreciation for, or rather understanding of your roots. I still live in Antwerp, most of time I work here, shoot here. Most of the guys I work with are still from around here. It’s impossible not to have some kind of imprint on the work. And that’s alright.
‘Vechten Voor Elkaar’ means ‘Fighting for Each Other’. It’s meant to look like a badge, the kind you would sew on your sleeve jacket. The faces I cut out from old mod pictures in a book, the lock is lifted directly from the emoji-lexicon. I love the symbol of the open lock, it signifies release to me. Typography purists will recognise the Hobo font, much maligned but I have always loved it, it has this unexceptional quality to it yet still inviting and bold in its own way. The motivation for this graphic was to counteract the all too pervasive idea that individuality nowadays should equal self-absorption, you know, everyone locked onto their screens and each to his own. It’s not about advocating a gang mentality but more about acknowledging that age-old notions like friendship and bonding, male, female or anything in-between, are still very valid and important.”
KNOTORYUS: Being a fan of photography, I would really like to stare at a selection of them printed in a large size.
PETER DE POTTER: That’s literally where I’m at right now. Do I move on? Or do I go back and look at what’s there and carry it further? Not out of a commercial point of view, but just to let it live a bit more. Look, my whole concept of 'retreat' didn't come out of nowhere. I use photography, graphic design, writing but those are all things I do by myself. Like a monk, building something. In this industry there are people who, by nature or with a little help, are very connected. At the drop of a hat, someone will be like: “Let’s do an expo.” Or: “Will you rap with me on my track?” or “Let’s produce wallpaper together.” That doesn’t happen for me. I’m perceived as working alone. The side effect is that people might think: “Peter doesn't do collaborations, so let’s not ask him.” That’s something I hadn’t counted on. Mind you, it’s not necessarily a bad thing. But again, I do think it's important to be mindful of the right carriers or platforms.
KNOTORYUS: Do you have something specific in mind?
PETER DE POTTER: A ‘traditional’ show, my images against white walls, I’ve done that a few times and I don’t know if that really lit a huge fire inside of me. What I have in common with the younger generation is that when I see an image isolated on a screen, I think it's the best way to look at it. By the way, I film a lot, too.
KNOTORYUS: Oh, I didn't know that.
PETER DE POTTER: At the moment, I use film to grab images from. So it’s already a part of my process. But I’ve never done a YouTube video or a film, really. I think there’s room there.
KNOTORYUS: This is exciting news!
PETER DE POTTER: I'm not talking short film or a feature necessarily, but as you know, anything involving moving images needs a certain budget. Which means you have to attract the right partners and that's not easy.
KNOTORYUS: I can't wait to see you explore this further. But for now, as we wrap up, could you tell me what moments in your career you are most proud of?
PETER DE POTTER: See, that's hard. I don't want to pick a certain series or a book, because that's always changing. (Thinks for a while) I guess I’m most proud of the fact that in my own way, with my self-developed kind of tunnel vision, I’ve been able to construct a very cohesive universe. I look at my own work and I know what others do and it’s not that it’s completely separate from them, but I feel like it stands on its own, without fencing itself off from others. And I’ve done that my way, with very limited ingredients. I never planned for all this to happen in this way. My cover art for Kanye West's 'The Life Of Pablo' album or Visionist’s ‘Value’ for example: to the outside world, that could’ve looked like commercial jobs with certain requirements I had to conform to. But it was the opposite of that. Same with everything I did with Raf. I think that people who thoroughly look at my work really see something delineated and standalone. I think that’s why I’ve been fortunate to be in touch with other artists who say: “Go ahead. Do your thing." They don't say those things because I am someone who doesn't like to compromise. It's more: “We see what you’re doing and we’ve got absolute faith in you.” I didn’t pick the easy road, but it has led to certain people opening up their world to me and my work.
KNOTORYUS: Thank you so much for talking to me.
PETER DE POTTER: You're very welcome.
Peter De Potter: “In this book there is -once more- a real emphasis on graphic elements, there is a lot of interplay between imagery and geometrical forms and shapes in the layout, so I wanted that reflected on the cover. The two previous books had very striking cover images, quite simple and direct, whereas this one is much more layered. There is no real connection to the title: my titles are always more evocative rather than descriptive and this one’s no different. ‘Vape Shop’ is a pretty mundane, everyday notion, it paints a familiar picture but combined with a more glorious word like ‘Olympia’ it should conjure up a different image, a more mysterious or bewildering scene. The book is very much about taking in whatever’s happening in today’s landscape, quite literally so. So the image of the vape shop felt right. Yet there is no vaping in the book, none whatsoever!
The cover is a composition of three different elements. The background is an older picture of one of my previous apartments. I like the fact that it’s not clear if the door is closing off a space or opening up to one. The drawn flower graphic seems to hover mid-space, with the cut-out figure of the boy giving the sense of completing an elliptical shape. The flower motif isn’t intended as a reminder of the first book in the trilogy (‘The Vanity of Certain Flowers’ from 2016) but it’s a nice after-thought I guess. I really like Kamiel’s presence here, he’s relaxed and pensive in a demanding way, he makes the scene look completely contemporary. But to me the cover image also has something of a Jean Cocteau-vibe, a bit ghostly surrealist, a bit mythical. And romantic, I cannot escape that.”
VAPE SHOP OLYMPIA
Limited edition of 500 copies
Softcover, 224 pages, 26 x 21 cm.
Published by Claire de Rouen
Buy HERE